Last year, Swedish band Tribulation completed a transformation that had been brewing for several years: with Sub Rosa In Æternum, the psychedelic and mystical death metal band (finally) fully embraced its gothic influences and almost entirely abandoned its more extreme impulses. We met with singer Johannes ‘Jonka’ Andersson a few hours before the band played at the Motocultor Festival (we told you about it here) to talk about this evolution.
You often draw your inspirations from horror movies from the 70's, the 80's or the 90's. What do you find in the past that you don't find today ?
I personally don't like the fast editing in modern movies, I don't like the jumpscares all the time. It sometimes seems like jumpscares is the only thing horror movies nowadays have. I love the grainy picture in older movies, the quality of the sound... and also the acting ! Everything, actually ! It's more about the aesthetics and the feel that you get when you watch an old horror movie, it makes it more cosy, you know... and more horrifying aswell ! I've seen some recent movies that I liked but I can't remember the titles anymore. I guess it's the way you watch movies these days, you just stream them. In the past you had your VHS or your DVD that you owned and that stayed in your bookshelf. Nowadays, we just try some random film on Netflix. The search for a good movie takes longer than the actual movie.
In Tribulation, you're all born in the late 80's. How do you explain that people so often fantasize the decade before their birth ?
A classic thing to say would be that we're born in the wrong century... Which one would you prefer to live in ? The 14th, the Victorian age... In my case, I think that all the good heavy metal came before I was born or just when I was born. The 90's really started to fuck things up. There were good and bad things, but I think we might be back on track now...
Your last album is more gothic. There seems to be some trend in the metal scene, with bands like Paradise Lost starting their Host side-project, the supergroup Cemetery Skyline or Sang Froid with musicians from Regarde les Hommes Tomber... How do you explain that metalheads, who sometimes come from the extreme scene, might be more comfortable now to fully embrace that kind of influence ?
I think everything goes in circles. Tribulation has always been inspired by gothic things, like movies or architecture. That's true, there is a thing going on right now but that also happened in the early 90's with the death metal bands turning into something more gothic or different. Like Tiamat for example. Maybe it's time again for some gothic rock ! I'm just guessing but I also have the feeling that the metal scene is getting broader and the audience might be more ready for it. Earlier, people would say "I listen to death metal and black metal and nothing else, I fucking hate Paramore, or whatever!"... But that's changing a bit. There will always be an underground scene that stays in the underground but I think people are more open minded now and accept more mixes of genres in the metal scene.
So, in a way, not everything was better in the past!
Yeah!
Is it the kind of music you could have done like ten years ago?
Good question! I mean, it's a hit or miss. I don't know if we're doing what we're doing at the right moment. I hope so. I would love to see more bigger gothic bands in the metal community but maybe it wouldn't have been possible for us ten years ago. That's when we released our third album, Children of the Night, and that's when we became more mainstream, signed on a bigger label and tried to get out of the underground, I guess. We've always loved everything gothic, it has been part of Tribulation ever since we started with extreme black metal. So it became a very natural thing. I also think that we're growing older and wiser... and you can't do the same thing on every album !
Is it more about trying new things or accepting who you really are?
Both. Challenging yourself for every album release is our moto. If we go into the studio and feel like this is exactly like the previous album, then it would be boring for us. Evolution is always a good thing not to get bored and "blasé".
Did trying new things make you want to rework your older songs for your live performances?
Good question! Now that the clean singing is in the picture, it is of course interesting... But no. I mean, those songs are a period of our career. It's gonna stay like that, we're not gonna change it. But it's funny, when we "hotel room rehearse", you know, I don't growl in my hotel room, I do clean vocals on old songs as well! Those versions exist, in a way, but it's only during our rehearsals in hotel rooms ! It sounds kinda good ! We tried the clean singing a tiny bit before but it didn't fit in the songs or the album theme. On the new album, it was about time, so let's do it!
Are you reaching new audiences with this evolution?
Yes, maybe... it's a bit fresh yet. We have done two tours and maybe a bit more goths have arrived at the front row. We do love that... But you know, wherever you are, the audience will be different. It's different in the US, where you have people with suits and ties, some Slipknot fans and everything in between ! In Europe, yeah, we have a bit more goths. But I don't think we have lost that many fans that I know of! Reviews have been great and my friends and family are happy because I finally use clean singing!
Now that you tried your clean voice, does that make you wanna try new collaborations like the one you did with Carpenter Brut?
Maybe. I mean, i depends on the band I guess. It has to be something I'm comfortable with. I had this question a couple of times you know, friends in other bands... It hasn't felt ok, I don't know why. I guess I was trying to save it for Tribulation. But Carpenter Brut is a good example. I like that kind of music but I don't listen to it a lot and it was kinda fresh for me. That's more appealing to try to do a mix like that, synthwave and me, a metal guy. I would probably accept more offers from "strange bands". If it's a Tribulation "cover band", I wouldn't do it. The same way we don't do covers of ourselves. Well, we don't do covers, but we shouldn't cover bands that sound like your own. You have to try something strange, something cool.
Your lyrics are like stories. Are they just stories? How much of yourself do you put into it? Are they just gothic illustrations?
Sometimes, there is a theme to an album, but usually, we have different themes. We don't really want to work with themes, it could be anything. Well, we obviously don't go into politics lyrically because that's dangerous and you get labelled, you know, "oh they're the commie band"... So we stay out of politics. The lyrics theme over the years have been quite similar. Horror, cinema, Nosferatu, gothic stuff... I guess that I give hints about my own feelings in them. It's 50% of that and 50% of cool words! But it's mainly the one who writes the song that also writes the lyrics so it's different every time. I don't do a lot of lyrics myself but we all agree upon them. It has to go through everyone personal feeling before recording it.
In your music, death is often sublimized, almost religious. Are you trying to come to terms with it? What's your relation with death?
That's the atmosphere we're working in on every album, the mysticism and the unknown... That's maybe an overall theme in our lyrics but being a bit vague. Sometimes, it's a different relation to it, depending of the guy in the band. These lyrics mean this to me, but to an other guy it means that.
Are you mystical people ?
Well... We're not good at social media, that's for sure! We joke about that a lot, I feel like a boomer a lot lately! Instagram is very hard for me, I don't use it as I should... But are we mystical people? I'm very social, I go to pubs a lot, I go to shows... No, we don't hide in the shadows like that. We prefer doing it our own way... We keep to ourselves a bit. We usually hang out with each other a lot. Adam moved back to his hometown so he's becoming the most mystical one because we don't see him as often. But he's not doing witchcraft! We all grew up on the woods basically, so there still is some part of that, you know. My parents house where I grew up is in the middle of the forest. It's beautiful and so taking those wood walks is very calming for the soul and makes you think of ghosts, witches, trolls and whatever in a good way. You can get very inspired by all that.
There's a french band called Indochine who has a song named Marilyn because they were inspired by Marilyn Manson when they wrote it. It was a working title but they finally never changed it. Is Reaping Song also a working title, like a joke between yourselves because it sounds like Nick Cave?
No... I don't remember what was the working title, maybe it was Reaping Song quite early! We of course discussed the Nick Cave thing and said "naaah, it's close but if people think it's too close, we'll say it's an hommage to Nick Cave because he's a great fucking dude!" There was some heavy discussion about that! Can we keep it? Some people said no, that's too close! But in the end, we were like "fuck those people, let's go with it"!
Since you all write some songs in the band, is there a specific one you'd like to tell us about?
On this album, there's been two songs from me, four from Joseph and three from Adam. We all do demos on our own. We don't rehearse a lot, we just rehearse in the studio before tracking... For me, that would be Poison Pages, it's a song of mine. I'm becoming more and more of a songwriter. I've always been one per se but we always help each other out. Sometimes someone comes with three riffs and we need more... We finish a lot in the studio together. Poison Pages, for me, was the introduction to clean vocals. It was kind of my fault I guess because there was a first demo sent to the group chat, you know. I said "listen to this" and they were like "clean vocals man!". It broke the barrier. I mean, we knew that my voice would work. It's not the best voice, I'm still working on it, it's very fresh and new to me, but it's fun. I'm becoming more and more a clean vocalist!
What kind of music do you listen together on the road?
Actually, we rarely do. Everyone is with his headphone... or we play video games ! We had a PS5 in the shuttle today! Today I also listened to the setlist we're gonna play tonight to refresh my memories. In festivals, you don't really have time to rehearse before you go. But otherwise, a lot of ambient music for me, like Anna von Hausswolf. When we're together, it can be anything, Type O Negative, Judas Priest... Some tours it even becomes a routine : ok Type O everyday! Some tours we have no music at all...
Do you have time to enjoy the festival or not?
Hopefully, we'll be around for a while... We've just arrived with a six hours shuttle from Charles-de-Gaulle. And it's the same way back tomorrow... But we usually have time for one or two bands and a couple of beers! Unfortunately our shuttle back will be at 1 A.M. and Carpenter Brut is playing at 1.30 so I'll miss it... We'll try to see Forbidden and Kerry King is also playing right when we'll be putting our make-ups so we'll miss him. But that's the best thing about festival season, when you realize that you're on the same day as someone you like and that you're gonna see the whole set! Last summer or two summers ago, we managed to see Mercyful Fate and Judas Priest three times! That was a good summer!
